This post provides a look ahead to the City of Nelson committee of the whole meeting scheduled for Monday, Oct. 24, 2011.

You can download the agenda here.

The council meeting starts at 7 p.m. and will be live blogged here.

A live blog is a continually updated account of an event, in this case, the City of Nelson council meeting. After 7 p.m., hit refresh and scroll down to see the latest from council.

Notes in italics from the preview of the meeting. Notes not italicized are from the live blog.

There’s a large audience tonight and a bit of a search for chairs to accomodate everyone.

7 p.m.

From council we have councillors Marg Stacey, Bob Adams, Donna Macdonald, Kim Charlesworth, Robin Cherbo and mayor John Dooley. From staff is Kevin Cormack, city manager, Colin McClure, chief financial officer, Dave Wahn, city planner. Missing is councillor Deb Kozak.

Coun. Marg Stacey is chairing tonight’s meeting. The order has been switched around a bit, moving the bylaw item to the end.

Stacey asks for presentations to council from the public, which are allowed at committee of the whole meetings.

Claos Schunke asks to speak to amendments to the Community Heritage Commission. He’s concerned the commission is trying to get power to approve development applications for new developments. The commission should be focussed on the historic aspects of the community. He suggests it’s working outside it’s mandate and says because their minutes haven’t been published since February and he’s worried they’re working behind closed doors.

He asks council to address this. He’s not comfortable with the way the commission is conducting its business.

Dave Wahn, city planner, answers some of Schunke’s concerns. Wahn says the commission doesn’t not make decisions. It makes recommendations which city staff or council act on.

Schunke says he isn’t satisfied with Wahn’s answer. He wants to see the bylaw governing the Community Heritage Commission leave no room for interpretation.

Wahn says the commission typically deals with the downtown, but that scope could expand or contract depending on changes council makes to the Official Community Plan.

Next up before council is Karen (I missed her last name, she has a soft voice) who has concerns the City of Nelson wants to privatise bus service on Sundays. She wants some clarification on service, including the mall bus stop.

Cormack says the city is looking to partner with a community group, not privatisation, to provide Sunday service. The city cut their Sunday service in September of this year.

The mall stop is part of a larger, regional plan and those routes are for discussion only. In the new year the larger system will be brought out to the community in Nelson and rural areas to get public input on that. The mall bus stop will continue for the time being.

Next is Dana Brevy (I’m sure about the spelling of her last name) who asks council why they think it’s acceptable to cut transit and then give themselves a raise. Nelson’s council approved suggestions from a committee that councillors salaries be tied with inflation.

7:19 p.m.

John O’Neil steps up to speak about transit. He says he’s concerned that council had a free bus tour a few weeks ago. People didn’t know about it, he says. He also notices the city doesn’t offer a free bus on New Year’s Eve. It would be good to have it to avoid having drunk drivers on the road. He challenges council to bring it back this New Year’s. However, the city needs to promote that service.

4a) Heroes of Woodstock special event

Bill McNally wants to help bring a concert to Nelson that he says could attract up to 5,000 people and generate $50,000 for a local charity.

He first approached the city about this in February 2011 but, according to the staff report, nothing moved forward because “concerns raised by departments were not able to be addressed in time for the event to be presented to council and proceed on the date as requested by the event organizer.”

In McNally’s initial letter, received at city hall on Feb. 17, he said he needed details approved by the city by the end of the month.

McNally is now back and asking for an audience with council. Staff want direction from council on whether councillors approve such an event before staff put any time into dealing with the logistics of the concert.

According to McNally’s February letter, the event is called the Heroes of Woodstock and would feature acts like Jefferson Starship, Country Joe, Big Brother and the Holding Company, Melanie, Edgar Winter and others. The letter says they would need to use Lakeside Park’s soccer fields to hold the event including a 10-foot perimeter fence and beer garden.

In 2010 the event was supposed to happen on Saturday, Aug. 13. There is no date given in tonight’s agenda for when the event could happen.

7:24 p.m.

Bill McNally steps up to the podium. He ran into the manager for Jefferson Starship (formerly Jefferson Airplane) and he thought it would be a natural to hold a concert with them in Nelson.

There’s still a chance they could have a concert next summer (“If the performers are still alive,” says McNally).

The plans to hold it at Lakeside Park, he heard concerns from Nelson Hydro and the officials who maintain the park. He thinks those can be remedied and says the real concern is around security.

Another area that might work would be the area around Maglio’s which doesn’t abut a residential area. McNally needs some of the estimates of city’s requirements before he proceeds.

But before doing that, he wants to know what council feels about it. If they feel they’d green light the concert, then he’d proceed. He’d like to hold it after Shambhala, while there are still a bunch of people milling around. McNally figures they could draw in 3,000 people and bring a summer festival back to Nelson.

So you’ll have 5,000 +65 year-olds, begins Stacey. “You’re going to need a lot of washrooms,” finishes Dooley.

Cherbo also suggests they look into the airport

McNally says that’s a good idea, as long as they can stop the plans from landing.

The other issue is they’ll need a variance on the noise bylaw, “so we can make some noise,” says McNally.

Cormack says council can make a formal decision at their Nov. 7 meeting, if they want to see more about this festival.

Dooley says he hopes McNally will seriously explore the airport. It has concrete, it has a perimeter and it can be closed off.

Council votes in favour of bringing this up to their Nov. 7 meeting.

Stacey clarifies this isn’t a decision, just a referral.

4b) Nelson Housing Forum

Coun. Donna Macdonald wants to speak with council about the terms of referencer for the Nelson Housing Forum.

According to the draft included in the agenda, the forum is a select committee of council with the following mandate:

[T]o identify critical housing needs and work with housing providers and other partners to find collaborative, cost-effective approaches that will expand Nelson’s stock of affordable housing, for the betterment of the community as a whole.

(Note: this item was moved forward in the new agenda order)

7:34 p.m.

Coun. Donna Macdonald says the forum has been ad hoc up to now but it’s been successful of bringing people together. In anticipation of the coming fall election and a change in council, she started exploring creating the terms of reference for the Nelson Housing Forum so it will continue into the future.

The current version has been endorsed by the current members of the forum and Macdonald is looking for any questions or concerns council may have.

Charlesworth asks if city staff have had input on the terms of reference. Macdonald says no. She developed it with the forum members, took it to city staff who recommended staff look it over after the November election.

Cormack says the city’s planning staff are concerned about the number of committees they’re being asked to be a member of. So long as there’s a city councillor willing to put the energy into keeping the committee on track, it won’t take up much effort from city staff.

It sounds like staff want to make sure there’s a council member to champion this effort so it doesn’t fall on them.

Dooley says this is good, but it’s still missing the regional piece.

If Nelson is the only community to look into providing social housing, it will remain that way and the burden will grow. Is there any sense of looking to regional partnerships, says Dooley.

Macdonald says Coun. Deb Kozak tried to get a sub-regional group together to look into housing and it didn’t get off the ground. Macdonald says she doesn’t think this is the right forum to handle housing for the surrounding rural areas.

Dooley says if they were to be lobbying the province for housing-project funding and had regional directors on side, it would help them leverage more funds.

Macdonald agrees with Dooley and says they’ll keep it in mind.

Council refers this to city staff.

4c) Lions Park

Plans to add a full-sized baseball diamond are back before council after a heated exchange at their last meeting. [See item 8a) in this live blog of the Oct. 11 council meeting.]

The plans for the baseball diamond at Lions Park.

Rick Crozier, from the Lions Club, and Nelson’s Baseball Association, Corbin Comishin will present their proposal to upgrade the existing baseball diamond at Lions Park.

The baseball diamond came to council at their Oct. 11 meeting and prompted a heated exchange between councillor Deb Kozak and mayor John Dooley. Kozak wanted time to review the plan before approving it, a move Dooley called a tactic to delay the project.

Council ended that earlier debate with a resolution to review the plan at the next meeting of the members of the recreation portfolio, which includes Kozak, Dooley and Coun. Marg Stacey.

Looking at the image provided, little has changed from the last meeting. One question then was where a new shed would go, a question that has been answered in the latest sketch provided to council.

In the agenda for the previous meeting, the Lions wrote they have $40,000 to contribute to the upgrades and asked the city for another $7,000.

Other concerns included the ongoing maintenance costs for the field and the fact there was no master plan for the city’s parks.

As this is a committee of the whole meeting, no decision is expected at this meeting.

7:46 p.m.

Larry Martel, president of Nelson Baseball Association, and Corbin Comishin, also from the NBA, sit down and get ready to present.

Cormack says Dooley, Kozak and the Lions sat down to clarify what the proposal is from the Lions and Nelson. At issue is whether the plans are a drastic change or an improvement to the park. There already is a baseball diamond at Lions Park.

Martel says Nelson Baseball Association serves kids from five to 17 years old. He goes through the various divisions they offer to the different ages.

Queen Elizabeth field is shared with the high school and a men’s league, says Martel. They approached the Lions about improving Lions Park, adding a fence and storage. They used to have storage there, but lost it when the splash park was put in.

Their plans for the park are: to add a new backstop that will be longer (not taller); build an enclosed dugout bench; plant a grass infield; irrigation; storage shed that could double as a small concession stand.

7:56 p.m.

They’re also proposing removing five trees but adding five trees. Some trees in the park are slated to come out already because they are diseased.

Charlesworth asks what the changes are from what they heard about last meeting. “Absolutely nothing,” says Comishin.

Cormack says last meeting they didn’t know the length of the fencing, location of the storage shed and plan to add new trees that are removed. All that has been added.

The current backstop either needs to come down or be replaced, adds Cormack.

Cherbo says he took a walk around the houses that border the park. Two of them were in favour. Three hadn’t heard about it. Most people wanted to have a public meeting to give people information about what’s planned, says Cherbo. Apparently there was a meeting in 2010 and Cherbo would like to know why it took almost a year to come forward with a plan.

Comishin says there was a miscommunication. The NBA thought the process had gone through council already because the Lions had talked to the city about their plans around the trees.

Everybody thought the improvements to Lions Park was going ahead, says Comishin. The Lions, some city staff and the NBA all thought it was a go. They were marking out the areas for the dugouts even. Suddenly Kozak contacted them to say she didn’t know anything about the proposal. Comishin says they had no intention to blindside the city with this project.

Cherbo says people who live in the area that he spoke with wanted to know about how far a baseball would fly, what kind of fencing there’d be and also people who thought it was a city park, not a baseball park.

Martel tried to find out how far ball gets hit. The majority of kids are 10 years old and they don’t hit homeruns out of the park. It would be one-in-a-hundred for balls going out of the park and into the surrounding area.

For the 11 and 12-year-olds they start to hit it out of the park, but they don’t plan on holding many games for kids those ages.

They play from May 1st to the end of June. Martel figures it would be a total 90 hours of baseball there. Roughly 10 hours a week.

Cormack prompts Martel to talk about why this field is needed when there’s already Queen Elizabeth. Martel says it’s set up for the larger kids (the bases are farther apart) and time is tight. The young kids haven’t been able to practice for the last couple of years. Imagine doing that for soccer, asks Martel. Playing a game that you don’t have the skills for.

8:11 p.m.

Martel wants to expand the culture of baseball in the community by giving the kids a permanent home. Kids are playing at Lions Park but not games.

Coun. Stacey asks why they need the dugout.

The dugout isn’t actually dug into the earth but it is enclosed and on grade. Comishin says it’s needed to keep the kids together. Baseball for little kids is like herding cats, he says.

Coun. Adams asks if they could start this year. Comishin says they can start this year providing it doesn’t snow. The sod needs to go in this fall.

Stacey asks why the trees have to come out. Couldn’t they stay if you don’t have the dugout? she asks. Comishin repeats the dugout is needed to keep the kids together so they don’t accidentally get hit by a ball.

Adams asks about the cost to the city. Nothing, says Comishin. The only cost would be getting the city to remove the trees. Cormack says those trees are already slotted to come out.

Coun. Macdonald asks about the timing of the games. They’d be anytime between 3 p.m. to dusk, says Comishin. Play wouldn’t be that whole time, but that is the range.

Macdonald asks what would happen if the number of kids playing increases. Martel says they would play more hours of baseball were that the case.

Stacey asks if there’s anyone from the public who wants to talk about this. David Johnson says he would like to speak. He lives right across from the third-base line. He congratulates the NBA for raising the money to build the baseball diamond. The park is used by kids, tots, water park, yoga.

However, he has some concerns. He says he doesn’t think there’s enough room for the diamond. Parking would be a serious problem, especially should games run over.

The plans are just the plans from one of the park’s users, says Johnson.

I would like to see a park with room to grow. A park where moms and tots won’t get hit by a homerun, says Johnson.

John Alton lives near the park and says it is well used by families and kids and he’s worried about those people getting pushed out should the baseball diamond go ahead.

Next is a woman who hasn’t identified herself, though Coun. Stacey invited her by name.

The woman says the park is used in “disorganized sport” and is worried about the loss of that potential should the baseball diamond be approved. She’s also concerned about the consultation process. She didn’t see notices about the proposed changes.

8:28 p.m.

The multi-functionality of the park is valued by the community and that could be lost should this be approved, says the woman. She also asks if they’ve considered the fields at the Tenth Street Campus.

Now Wayne comes up to the microphone. He doesn’t have any problem with the proposal, but he has a problem with the fact the city hasn’t publicized this meeting. He’s had a hard time getting information but his questions were answered this evening.

Wayne says the park is used by many people. He was concerned it would affect those people but he feels it won’t, now that he’s seen the plan.

Mike Morrison now steps up. He’s against the proposal. He says he wasn’t pleased with the process around this park. He asks council to not rush into a decision. The issue for him is the exclusive use of the park. It’s a well used park and the baseball diamond proposal would take that use away from people, he says. Lions Park is the only park for Uphill, says Morrison. Even if it’s 10 hours a week, it’s still too much of an exclusive use.

He also anticipates conflicts with other users during games.

Allen Fillion, from NBA (and the director of the Public Works Department), now asks to speak. He says the NBA is using the field for four hours a week already. They’re just looking to add four more hours.

The backstop has to be replaced, says Fillion. The city’s insurance provider took a look at it and said it has to come out. The NBA is going to save the city money, he says.

Rick Crozier from the Lions Club asks to speak now. Crozier says the Lions were also concerned about lack of multi-use, but given the playing times, they feel it will remain a multi-use park.

Crozier says one of the trees slated to come out to accomodate the dugout was identified to come out soon. The other three would be in the next 10 to 15 years.

Mayor Dooley says he favours this project. He coached soccer up there for 15 years and they played six games at a time. There used to be adults baseball up there and they’d launch baseballs onto roofs.

What’s being offered here is two things, says Dooley. A chance for kids to get outside and be active. Secondly, the Lions are being good stewards of that park and the NBA want to improvement.

8:43 p.m.

Coun. Kim Charlesworth says she’s heard about concerns about the park, but the biggest concerns she’s heard are the lack of process around adding these improvements. Charlesworth says she is more or less satisfied by their explanation of what happened there.

Charlesworth also asks about maintenance. Martel says the parents will maintain it and there’ll be an agreement in place with the city to ensure they maintain it.

She asks what they need at minimum to play games up there. Martel says they need the dugouts to keep the kids corralled and some improvements to the field.

Charlesworth asks if the city looked to prevent tournaments from happening would that be a deal breaker for the NBA. Comishin says there are rarely baseball diamonds in Nelson because they don’t have the facilities for it.

She also asks if they could restrict the games up there to only ages that play with the softer balls. Comishin says a 10-year-old kid won’t hit the ball 200 yards and out of the park. “It’ll never happen.”

Charlesworth asks about the Tenth Street fields. They’re not big enough, says Martel.

Dooley asks council to support the proposal to staff to redevelop the existing ball field as proposed. Charlesworth says they don’t pass those motions at committee of the whole meetings. Dooley clarifies that he’s asking them to refer it to staff to have it come forward to the next meeting.

Adams seconds the motion.

Coun. Macdonald asks how they’d deal with the growth they’d like to see. Martel says they’d have to grow by quite a bit to outgrow this field. Comishin says if they grow to a 10-team league in Nelson they’d be lobbying for money for a $200,000. That gets some laughs from council.

Comishin says they book their times to use the park through the Regional District of Central Kootenay. We pay for it, he says.

Macdonald asks to amend Dooley’s motion to include wording to control the hours of usage. Cherbo seconds the amendment.

Stacey says there was a communication screw up and jurisdictional screw up as well.

The amendment passes.

Now the motion is council refer the plan from the NBA and Lions Park to city staff, which the amendment that the city look into ways to limit the hours of use.

The motion passes unanimously. This still has to go to a regula r council meeting where they could hash this out all over again.

9:07 p.m.

4d) Regulating development and subdivisions

How development and property subdivision is regulated is the next item on the agenda. Dave Wahn, the city’s senior planner, wants to talk about changes to the city’s Subdivision Bylaw that regulates how land is developed and subdivided in Nelson.

There’s no explanation of the changes in the staff report, just a copy of the 164-page bylaw. We’ll have to wait for Wahn’s talk to get the details.

One of those changes is council doesn’t approve subdivisions. A city-designated approving officer does. This evening is meant to just introduce the new bylaw to council.

“I’m sure you have many engineering standards questions for Allen,” Wahn says, nodding towards Allen Fillion, director of public works, “so I’ll turn it over to him.”

Councillors chuckle. Fillion says at it’s most basic, they’re working to change the bylaw to be up to the regulations set out by the province.

Dooley asks if this will reduce the amount of time to get subdivision approval and affect costs.

Fillion says it will streamline the process. Wahn agrees, but cautions that the person has to have the proper documents. This puts the onus on the developer or property owner to provide the appropriate engineering documents.

We’re hoping to create a culture where people hire the appropriate professionals so it will take less staff time, says Wahn.

Wahn says the updated bylaw won’t change much process-wise for the city or developers, but it will meet provincial standards and provide an opportunity for the public to question engineering standards and lessen them, where it makes sense, in a given circumstance. That would only be a decision by council, he says.

Now the public can come forward with different ideas and prove they work, he explains.

Charlesworth asks for wording that makes it explicit that the city will consider alternatives providing the make sense from engineering standards.

Councillors are now asking rather specific questions around things like the steepness of driveways entering strata properties. Not much to report.

9:34 p.m.

Charlesworth is concerned subdivisions will have driveways that are too steep and dangerous to drive down in the winter.

As they wrap up the meeting, Dooley says he has something for Charlesworth.

You want me to work on being more green, he says, pouring green dye into a glass of water. He swirls the water as it turns bright green.

“This’ll go through my bloodstream and we’ll make more progress,” he says.

The meeting is adjourned.

Good night.

9:41 p.m.